S1, E3: What Is Worship?

In this episode, we explore the meaning and significance of worship. Worship is defined as the act of offering honor, reverence, and devotion to God. The discussion highlights that true worship is not only what we say, but also how we live, referencing Romans 12:1, which calls us to present our bodies as a living sacrifice to God. Finally, the episode examines the relationship between personal and corporate worship, showing how personal worship fuels corporate worship and, in turn, corporate worship strengthens personal worship.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Songs can have a verse, a chorus, and a bridge. But worship does not end there. This is Beyond the Bridge. I'm Josh. And I'm Darren. Each episode we step into the real joys and challenges of leading worship teams and choirs.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Exploring the moments, the people, and the songs that shape the heart of worship. Whether you're on the platform, in rehearsal, or behind the scenes, this is the place where your heart, your team, and your ministry come alive to go.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Beyond the bridge and into the heart behind the music. Welcome to episode three of Beyond the Bridge. I'm Josh Erzman here with my good friend Darren White. Darren, how are you today? Good. How about you? Doing great, doing great. So we have decided for this third episode that we're gonna take a step back. If you haven't listened to episodes one and two, you can go back and review those. Episode one kind of was an introduction to us, focused on uh our ministries and kind of our backgrounds and experiences. And then episode two, we focused in on the idea of song selection, choosing good congregational songs for the church and for worship services. We're gonna take a step back today, and I'm excited for this conversation about what worship is. How do we define it? You know, what does it include? What does it not include? And so, Darren, I'm gonna kick it over to you and just kind of let you give us your as best you can your definition of worship. How do you understand what worship is?

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Well, first of all, I'm trying to figure out when you say kick it back, I I I don't know what that means because when we were talking about this and hey, what topic do we want to cover for episode three? You said, What is worship? And on the inside, I'm going, oh boy, here we go, we're getting into it. So, yeah, I don't understand that phrase kick it back when you say that, but as as long as you understand it, that's that's all that's needed.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

I guess I guess where I was coming from is I know that as a person who teaches on this subject, I'm gonna have a lot to say, and I'm worried that if I start, I'm not gonna be able to stop. So I'm gonna let you go first.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Well, in preparing for this, of course, you've got all the resources in the world, of course, with the internet. So, yes, I went to Google to see what what was out there. I also took the time to ask our pastor, flat out ask him those three words. What is worship? And he very immediately, with no time to think, he just said, Worship is our response to God's glory.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Hmm. That's really good.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

And I'm like, there we go, we're done. Yep. Of course, we had a deeper conversation about how to worship and different things like that. But as I was looking through some different things and I was thinking for myself, what's it mean for me to worship? We've already said I play drums, that's the only way I know to worship. I don't sing, I don't play any other instrument, they won't let me, they probably don't want me to. So I was thinking about that and I thought, to worship to me is to give honor to God, to show reverence. And that's something that in a way I kind of struggle with, because if you've got a a full worship team or a choir or whoever is on that stage or platform, whichever you prefer to call it, and they've all got these plain, sad looking faces. What's that do to the congregation that you're supposed to lead in worship? That's right. And we've talked about that with our worship team. But when I play my drums, I have trouble showing emotion, you know, because I'm I'm thinking I'm focused in the zone. I want to make sure this is right and not to make sure it's right so that I do it perfectly, because I won't for one thing, but to do it right in order to worship God to the best of my ability.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Right, and to eliminate distraction, right? You know, part of the reason that we rehearse and and practice, and there is a distinction, I will say, between the idea of rehearsing and practicing, and we can get into that. But the reason we we invest all of that time and energy is so that when we're whether we're playing, we're singing, uh, we're reading scripture, we're doing whatever it is that we're doing as part of our worship leading, that we are not distracting people from the message and from the person and work of Jesus, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yes. One thing I saw that somebody had out there on the interwebs, I didn't do very good research, I guess, because I didn't make a note as to who said this. Recognizing who God is. And I thought, you know, that kind of in a way that kind of takes everything. That kind of takes the God's glory, showing him honor and reverence, devotion, it kind of takes all of that and wraps it up into one. Yeah. Who is God? God is everything, God is all these things. So I I really like that too. And the thing that stuck out to me in talking to my pastor, doing research on the internet, so much of the descriptions of what worship is were short and sweet and to the point. Yep. Then they'd get into the explanation and all and all that. But initially, the first phrase, the first sentence was just short and to the point.

unknown 5:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

And that stuck out to me. I don't know if it means anything or not, but it stuck out to me.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Well, I think anytime you get into definitions, you know, it's helpful. No one's gonna remember a fifty-two-word definition of worship. Right. But they'll remember a five or six-word. And your your pastor's definition, worship is a response to God's our response to God's glory, very, very similar to what I would consider to be my definition, uh, which I'll unpack in a little bit. But uh, you know, I define worship as an appropriate response to God's revelation. And so a lot of similarities there, but it's just a simple six-word definition. You know, if somebody asks me, I can I can tell them now. I can talk for hours on the topic, but that's the that kind of the six-word executive summary, so to speak. So, in thinking through our conceptions of worship, what does worship include and what does it exclude in your mind?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

While the pastor and I were talking, he was saying that there's so many different ways you can worship. And I understand that. But I was wanting to go a little bit deeper. I said, So let's take speaking in tongues. Personally, and I think our church believes as a whole speaking in tongues is biblical, but there should be an interpreter to go along with that. And I know that's a topic far above my head, but that's that's where I stand on that. But I asked him, I said, What about speaking in tongues? And he referred to that more as I can remember the word he used Apostolic gift. Giving a message. Okay. Oh, okay. Kind of a sermon teaching more like that. And I hope I'm not misspeaking on what he said, but he kind of made the separation of those two. Gotcha. And Pastor Mike, if you listen to this and I'm getting any of this wrong, I apologize. You can chastise me later.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

He can he can come on the podcast. I you know, we've talked about inviting inviting Pastor Mike and my pastor, Pastor Orvin, inviting them to come on the podcast and doing a kind of, you know, what do worship leaders need to know from their pastors, what do pastors need to know from their worship leaders kind of episodes, so he can come on and and correct the record. So back to your question, I'd I'd have to put some more thought into that. So I I think for me, there's a conception that I see out there that music equals worship. So when somebody comes up to me at the end of a service and said, I really loved or enjoyed the worship today, right? What they're saying to me is, I really enjoyed the music today. Yeah. Right. And I think that's a false dichotomy. I don't I don't think people mean anything by it. I just think people have maybe haven't thought through that worship includes more than just singing, right? Yes. It's worship is in fact more than just a Sunday morning service, right? Uh, you know, worship obviously does include, I think, the entirety of the Sunday morning service. So listening to the word of God preached is is part of worship. Giving an offering is part of worship. That one, you know, that'll get you into some trouble in some Baptist churches. But uh, you know, I even go so far as to say that I think the announcements, even though those seem very, you know, sanitary and just very, you know, here's the oh, we got to do the necessary business of getting volunteers and those kinds of things. I honestly think that announcements can be an important part of worship because they're an opportunity for us to respond to the word of God that's been sung and to the word of God that's been preached. We're responding through service to the church and and in our communities. So I think that can be part of worship as well. But I think it even goes beyond that to really worship is a lifestyle, it's a way of living. One of my favorite scripture passages is Romans 12, 1 and 2, uh, which I even though I use the Christian Standard Bible now is the kind of the translation that I mostly use, I have this memorized in King James. That's just you know, I was in but children's Bible drill back in the day, state perfect for two out of the three years in Bible drill. I only missed the book of Amos, my sixth grade year, and that kept me from being three years state perfect, but it's I'm not bitter, it's fine. But Romans 12, 1 and 2 in the King James says, I beseech you, therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service, right? And if you look at the Greek, and I'm gonna try and not get too nerdy here, but if you look at the Greek, the word that's used there for reasonable service is actually the word latre. I think it's pronounced latreo. I may be wrong on the pronunciation. I don't actually know Greek. I'm just going by sight of things that I've read. But um the word latreo is not a common word for worship. It is used for worship throughout scripture, but it's not the most commonly used Greek word. The most commonly used Greek word is actually the word proskineo, where proscineo literally means bowing down in reverence before a visible majesty. Okay? So proscineo is the word that you see all through the Old Testament and in the Gospels and in Revelation for worship. That's not what Paul uses in Romans 12, right? He uses the word latreo, and part of the reason for that is that in the Gospels and in Revelation, and I'm I'm totally stealing this idea from John Piper, uh from his book uh Brothers We Are Not Professionals, is where this whole I read this many, many years ago and it's just it's stuck with me for years. But during the the Gospels, Jesus is physically here, right? In Revelation, Jesus is physically here. He's come back, he's returned. But in the church age that we're living in now, and where the context of Romans was written, Jesus wasn't physically here on earth. And so there was this kind of internalization of worship. It wasn't a physical response, a bowing down, it was an internal response. And so Paul uses that term latreio to mean we present our bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto God, which is our, the King James says reasonable service. Other translations, I believe, including the CSB, render that as which is your spiritual act of worship. And so the idea that music or worse, sorry, worship is not just singing, it's not just on Sunday, it's not part just the service, but it's actually a seven days a week, 24 hours a day act of devotion. It's the way that we live our lives. Um Corinthians says, whatever you eat, whatever you drink, whatever you do, do all for the glory of God.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

So the NIV version of Romans 12, verse 1. Okay. Uh, I've got that here. So we came up with the same thing, same verses separately. Nice. The NIV version, which I understand a little bit better. Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies, and I think the version you said was present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God. This is your true and proper worship. And how was it the King James King James says reasonable service.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Okay. Right. So it's that it's that idea of you know, the Old Testament, how did people worship in the Old Testament? They would bring sacrifices, they would bring offerings. And through the sacrifice of Christ, we no longer are required as believers, we are no longer required to bring, you know, birds and and goats and and animals to sacrifice at the temple, right? To to um atone for our sins. Jesus took care of that once and for all at Calvary. But what we are required to do is to present ourselves, our bodies, the way we live our lives, as a sacrifice of worship to the Lord. I'm gonna tell a funny story. So I have only preached, I've been at First Baptist Church for fifty about 15 years, almost 15 years. And I've only preached about three or four times in that 15 years, uh, just when our pastor's either been gone or, you know, one time our pastor had had shoulder surgery, and you know, anyway. So I've only preached a handful of times, and part of the reason is that every time I preach, my sermons get longer. So nobody nobody wants me to preach because they they want to get to lunch on time.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

So not sure if I can believe that.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

You know, I know, I know. But one of the uh the first sermons that I preached there, I actually used this as my closing illustration. And it was a story from when I was back in seminary. It was one of those afternoons. Do you ever have one of those afternoons? Have I told you the Taco Bell story? Does this sound familiar? I don't think so. Okay. So I'm I'm worried I'm telling the same stories on the podcast over and over again. But uh I was in seminary, I was having one of those afternoons. It was almost an afternoon like we're having today, where the it's beautiful sky, nice warm temperatures. It's one of those days you want to roll down the windows and just kind of cruise down the road. So I'm on a lunch break from work and decide to go to Taco Bell, right? And get some get some lunch, right? So I go to Taco Bell, and uh, this is in Kansas City, right? So I'm sitting in the Taco Bell drive-thru. I order my food, I go up to the window, and there's something there I've never seen before. There's this little digital, I mean, very old school digital. This was 15 years ago, very old school digital sign that says, Does the amount shown equal the price paid? Okay, does the amount shown equal the price paid? And it was basically a theft protection system. So whatever the person uh behind the counter, whatever they would enter into the computer, that amount would show up on the screen. And so if the person says, Hey, your total is $15, and I go up and the sign only says $8, I know they're trying to steal $7 from me, right? But as I'm I'm sitting there and I'm looking at that, I'm waiting for my food, I started to think that has spiritual application. Is the amount shown, the amount given, equal to the price paid, right? So when Christ gave his life for us at Calvary, how do we repay that? We can't, right? Uh we're singing uh we sang this last Sunday, Jesus paid it all, uh as our as our imitation song, and it has that, you know, Jesus paid all paid it all, all to him I owe. Because of Calvary, we are required. We have no other response than to give everything that we are. Our our lives, our time, our talent, our treasure, everything about us has to be turned over to the Lord. And even in doing that, we're still not equaling the price that Christ paid at Calvary, but we owe him everything that we are. And so in my mind, you know, talking about worship, worship is that kind of whole of life offering, sacrifice, whatever you call it. So, like I said, my definition is worship is a response to God's revelation. Well, God's revelation through his word, through the person of his son, revealing who he is and what he's done should lead us to respond to him in the only way that we possibly can, which is to give him our entire life.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

And that kind of connects to something else I found. Worship is both what you say or sing and how you live. That's right. In response to God. So that that right there is just give everything. Absolutely. We still fall short, but we're supposed to. We're supposed to give everything we have. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

But I mean, there there's nothing, like I said, there's nothing wrong with uh associating singing or playing an instrument, you know, musical worship. There's nothing wrong with associating music and worship together. Music is worship, not all music, right? Right. You know, hell's bells is probably not worship, right? But music is it is worship, can be worship, but it's not the entirety of worship. And I think that's where some of the disconnect happens. So, you know, for folks that that are saying, you know, I worshiped through, you know, singing this song today. Absolutely you did, but you also worshiped in the way that you treated your neighbor. You're also worshiping through the way that you read your Bible this morning and prayed and spent time talking to the Lord. You're worshiping through, you know, the decision that you made uh yesterday, right? Though all of those can be acts of worship because they are a response to God, you know, through the sacrifice of Jesus and what he's done for us.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

So just with that right there, you kind of went through Sunday morning worship service. Corporate worship. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

And you went through people don't like that word. Yeah. I've I've said that word and they're like, what we mean, like a business corporate? No, corporate's just the whole body together, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:50

And then personal worship. So much of this stuff here is not mine. I can't claim it.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

I understand.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

But I thought this was really good. Personal worship fuels corporate worship. Absolutely. Corporate worship strengthens personal worship. Mmm, that's good. And I thought that was pretty good. That's really good. I was smart enough to make a note of that, not smart enough to come up with that. I understand. Understand.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Well, and and that makes sense. I mean, the idea of corporate worship, uh, I I heard and I wish I I had this um the again the source of this story that I heard, but uh I will frequently ask my students this question. You know, remind me of your wife's name. Melissa. Melissa, okay. I I knew that and I just had a had a brain fog for a minute. But if you only told Melissa that you loved her for 30 minutes once a week. Now, during that 30 minutes, you are Mr. Charming. You say, Melissa, I just love you so much. You're the best thing that's ever happened to me. You know, I'm so thankful for you. You just you go all you bring her flowers. Shh you just no, I I I think this is a good idea. But uh you just go all out in in the way that you show your love and affection to Melissa.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

And then for the other, how many hours in a week? 178. For the other 177 and a half hours during the week, you pay no attention to Melissa whatsoever. Nothing. You you don't look her direction, you don't think about her. I mean, you might your mind might every once in a while wander, oh yeah, Melissa, I forgot about her. I'm so thankful for her. But you don't you don't show that in any way. You don't share it with other people, you don't acknowledge her in any way, shape, or form. How healthy do you think your marriage would be? Well, not very healthy. It would not be. And yet that's what a lot of us do toward the Lord. We go all out during that that worship time on Sunday morning. We're lifting our hands and closing our eyes and we're praising God through songs, and then we barely think about Him the rest of the day.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

That's right. Unless you're assemblies of God, then they go 45. Considerably longer, but yeah. You assembly of God people, you're my friends too.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Absolutely. But yeah, that's a good example. So it needs to be, I mean, you know, that idea of corporate worship or personal worship fueling corporate worship. Sunday morning should be an overflow, a continuation of what's happening through the week, right? We we should be engaging with the Lord on our own, and then on Sunday morning, that relationship, it's a continuation, it's an ongoing part of the worship that's been going on through the week.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

So I I almost brought this up the last episode about how do we choose songs for the set list each Sunday. It almost seems like it fits here. I didn't, but it almost seems like it fits here too. We used to at one time we'd put a I think it was a Spotify set list together for the songs that we're going to do Sunday morning, then we'd throw that out in social media to the members and the idea was so that they Could prepare themselves so that they could provide that fuel during personal worship to come into corporate worship.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Do you all do anything like that? We we don't do the Spotify play. I mean, I I will say this. We have a single Spotify playlist that is available on our website to my detriment. I've not promoted it on our social media pages recently. It was actually something that I did as part of my dissertation process when I was finishing my doctorate. But I have a kind of a master Spotify playlist that we have shared with our church that has basically every song. It has a you know a hundred and something songs on it. It's basically every song that's in our current repertoire of songs. Okay. Um now, as far as every week, I do put out in advance the song list. I don't necessarily put a playlist together for each week, but we do put on social media, you know, here's the service that's upcoming, here's the sermon. You know, we give them the scripture text that Pastor's gonna be preaching out of, and then I do include those song titles. I will go so far whenever we're introducing a new song, I usually do attach, you know, a YouTube link or something to that just to say, hey, we're gonna be introducing a new song this Sunday, here's you know, a link so that you can listen to it and watch it and um you know experience it before Sunday so that you're ready to sing.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Okay, because I I've just been thinking about that a lot lately. If we expect the congregation to show up Sunday morning, 10 30 hits on the clock, we start the first song and that they're standing there going, uh, w what song are we Oh that one. Yeah. Okay, okay. Are they prepared? Have we done our job to prepare them for corporate worship?

SPEAKER_00 23:47

No, I I agree. And I think you know, this is a little more short term, but that's one of the reasons why I've continued to be an advocate, even though a lot of churches have gotten rid of it, I've continued to be an advocate of putting the order of service in the weekly, you know, whatever you might call it, bulletin worship guide, whatever you know, you hand folks if you hand them anything, since COVID, a lot of churches don't even hand them anything. But, you know, giving people, especially guests that come in that maybe don't know like our traditional service flow, how things are put together, that can help them in those minutes leading up to the start of the service. As folks are flipping through that, they can be kind of thinking through themselves, you know, what's going to be happening, what songs are we gonna be singing? Oh, that's a song I don't think I know. You know, they're they're looking it up on YouTube as they're waiting for the service to start or something. But I think any of those tools that we can give people to help them engage in the worship experience are are helpful.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

I think the only reason we stopped, well, two reasons we stopped doing that, we didn't have any feedback. Yeah. There was nobody that said, Hey, I appreciate that. Nothing. Yeah. And being volunteer, it was just yet something else to do. Exactly. So I think we just kind of cut back because of those two reasons. But I've considered doing that again.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Yeah. I think I I don't know how much of a response because honestly, I haven't heard that many, if any, comments about us doing it. It's just kind of become part of my weekly flow uh of doing that. Because we do we do a weekly like email blast to our congregation, and so I usually will include it in that as well as social media, and so it's just become part of my flow of whenever we prepare that e-blast every week. I take the old one out and put the new one in, and it's just it's become kind of a familiar tradition, but I do think it serves a reasonable purpose.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

We may start doing that. So is there anything else that you have as far as what is worship?

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Well, uh, you know, I I think the big things, you know, that it's a response, we talked about that, that it's a lifestyle. I also would contend that worship is a sacrifice, which again goes back to that Romans 12 idea. It should cost us something, right? So thinking about the story of Mary washing Jesus' feet with the with the ointment, right? That was expensive stuff. We actually just read about that in, I think it was my Sunday school commentary uh for my Sunday school class here recently, but just the expense that went into that, that that was, I want to say like a year's wages worth of ointment uh that would have have been used. And so that idea of worship requiring something from us, in some cases it's that preparation piece of we are engaging in personal worship through the week. In some cases, it's you know, I think unity is important in worship. You know, you have the passages that talk about before you observe the Lord's Supper, which by the way, the Lord's Supper and Baptism, the two ordinances of the church, those are also part of worship. But, you know, the passages that talk about before you take the Lord's Supper, if you have an issue with a brother or sister in Christ, you need to go address that issue before you partake of the supper. Well, to me, causing unity or or creating unity, apologizing for something I've done, seeking to make things right between you and me if there's an issue between us, that that costs something. That's something I could easily, I'm I'm very conflict averse. I could easily not say anything and just sit across the the the aisle from you and just kind of glare at you as I'm you know taking my my bread and cup. But you know, it it requires for worship to be worth something, it requires a sacrifice of us, and sometimes that's a sacrifice that's uncomfortable. Yeah. So, you know, just that idea of of worship is a response, it's a sacrifice, it's a lifestyle, and just kind of getting that concept that it's bigger than just music, it's bigger than just a Sunday morning service, that worship is the whole of life. You know, we are, I think it was Ed Stetzer, who used to be at Lifeway Research, and I can't remember where he's at now, but Ed Stetzer one time wrote that we are never not worshiping, right? Our affections are always oriented towards something or someone. And if we're not careful, most of the time that thing that our affections are oriented toward is ourselves and our desires and our wants. But that we are always 24-7, we are always worshiping something. And so it's just being aware of where is our worship being directed at any given moment in our lives.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

So you said something earlier, and maybe we can just kind of wrap it up with this. You have people come up to you after a Sunday morning service. Hey, I really enjoyed the music today. I really enjoyed the worship service today. And what you said is they what they mean is or what they're more than likely referring to. I like the music. I like the music. Yeah. Because I've had that happen. You know, really enjoyed those songs today. Um you really got with it on the drums. Yeah. How do you react to those things? Because with me it's I want to tell them thank you, because I don't want I don't want to come across being rude. Right. So I say, Well, hey, thanks, man. I appreciate that. But on the inside I'm going, that's not what it's about. Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

I I'm gonna I'm gonna probably offend some people in what I'm about to say. I just say thank you and move on. Yeah. You know, I could be probably a little more legalistic about it and to kind of pull the football player move and and point up to to the heavens and and say, oh, glory to God, or you know, I'm just I'm not wired that way. And so I I know what they mean, and I just I kind of just assume and trust that their hearts were inclined the right direction in in, you know, they're just acknowledging something. I you know, I we had a a young man, one of our youth, that led part of the worship service and did a special Sunday. I don't begrudge a single member of our congregation for going to him and telling him he did a good job at leading worship Sunday. To me, that's you're encouraging a brother or sister in Christ. That's the word I was looking for. Yes. And so, you know, uh, could could we be very pharisaical and legalistic about it and say, well, you need to not point the attention toward that person, you need to point it toward the Lord. It's the same people who argue that you shouldn't applaud in a worship service. And and to that I say, well, first of all, applause is mentioned in scripture, you know, giving giving glory to God through the clapping of hands, you know, that's literally drawn from the Psalms.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

I would argue that's a percussion instrument.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

And yes, it's very true, it is a percussion instrument. That's right. But, you know, I don't make a big deal out of it. Now, if if somebody wants to drone on and on and on about something, you know, I might stop them and say, God has blessed us, or you know, I might say something like that. But if it's literally just an offhand comment, wow, I really enjoyed the music today, or really and even if they say I really enjoyed the worship, I'm sorry. I'm not gonna give them a 10-minute lecture on how music is or worship is not just music. That's just that's not how I'm wired.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Well, you said the word I was looking for, encouragement. And I I try to do that with our worship team every Sunday, you know, somebody. I some somebody on the worship team. Hey, good job today. Yep, exactly. It's just encouragement. I think we're supposed to encourage each each other.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

I would say I think that more of us need to do that toward our pastors as well. Yes. You know, it's not sinful or wrong to tell your pastor that he did a good job, that he he gave a good message, that you know, he has has worked and has prayed and has planned and prepared that message from God's word and and shared it in a way that connects with your specific congregation, you can encourage him in that way. So many pastors are facing depression and discouragement, and you know, I can't even imagine the number of pastors who on Monday morning wake up and think, Am I making any difference in my church and community at all? You know, that I just I want to quit. And I think some of that could be staved off if instead of criticizing or complaining or whatever, if we would encourage our pastors on Sunday morning as we as we leave.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Last thing I'll say is I had a lady come up to me after a church service one Sunday. She looked at me and she goes, That worship service really blessed my heart. And I was like, There we go. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Yep, that's it. We got it.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

But anyway. Well, very good. All right. Well, I I mean, this was kind of tied in with our last episode about, you know, congregational song selection and and kind of fitting in that that same mentality. We're actually going to move into that again, that topic, uh, weaving together those those conversations in our next episode. We're going to talk about uh what did you say you title it, should we or shouldn't we? Correct. And discussing, you know, do the sources of our congregational songs matter, uh, or should they matter? And how do we navigate that that kind of controversial decision in today's worship climate? So thank you for joining us today on Beyond the Bridge.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Thanks for joining us for this episode of Beyond the Bridge. If today's conversation spoke to you, be sure to subscribe, share it with your team or a friend, and join us next time as we grow together in how we lead and how we worship.